Microphone preamplifiers can have an incredible influence on the tone of the source being recorded. Specific microphone preamplifiers from well known name brands are coveted for the sonic imprint they impart onto recordings.
In the latest entry to our How To Listen Series, Fab Dupont and Chris Mara (producer, engineer, and owner of the Nashville based recording studio, "Welcome To 1979") sit down with four different flavors of microphone preamplifiers for the purpose of quantifying the characteristics each contribute to the final sound of the recording.
This is a chance to hear the sound of coveted microphone preamplifiers on the same drummer, playing the same pattern, through the same microphones, so that you can listen to the differences for yourself as Chris, and Fab demonstrate, explain, and give you tips on what to focus on in order to learn the sound of microphone preamplifiers.
00:00:00 Good morning children!
We are here in Nashville
at Welcome to 1979
with my good friend Chris Mara,
for the second edition of
How To Listen / Vintage Gear edition
/ today, Mic Pre edition.
00:00:22 - Chris, what are we doing today?
- Well, we've got an excellent drummer,
Kate Haldrup,
and we're using our console
which is a vintage MCI console.
00:00:35 And a few years ago
we added 20 channels
of API mic pres to it.
00:00:43 - But you didn't get rid of the MCI pres?
- No, the original ones
are still in there.
00:00:46 - So on this console you can
actually flip with one switch
between API or MCI?
- Yes. 20 channels,
one switch per channel.
00:00:56 - Nice! And you can choose per channel.
- Yes.
00:00:59 - What else are we going to do?
- Well, since we can A/B those instantly,
we decided to also listen to
the same kick, snare and overheads
through the Trident 80 sidecar I have.
00:01:13 - Okay.
00:01:14 - And we have two channels
of Heritage Audio 1073
and two channels of Vintech 1073,
so we're going to listen to
the same drum groove
on four different mic pres.
00:01:26 - To summarize for those of you
who were not paying attention,
we're going to have
four different sets of mic pres
with the same microphone,
the same drummer, and the same groove.
00:01:34 - Nice!
- Yeah.
00:01:35 - All right, the first step
would be potentially
to go put microphones on the drums.
00:01:40 - Let's do that.
- Okay. Let's rock!
- We are now downstairs
at Welcome to 1979,
in one of the many live rooms
or recording spaces,
and we have Kate,
who is going to play drums for us.
00:01:56 And she had the great taste
of bringing her fabulous-looking set
and no toms, which is a sign
of quality for a drummer.
00:02:03 - Yes, it is. The smaller the kit,
the better the drummer.
00:02:05 - Exactly! I love it.
00:02:08 You can splurge,
we have a cymbal. Amazing.
00:02:10 So,
this is just a quick mic placement thing,
it's not the point of the video.
00:02:16 The point of the video
is to compare the microphones.
00:02:19 However,
since we're here and it's your studio,
rock!
- Cool!
- So what do we have?
- I kind of went for what
I would normally use.
00:02:29 I'm...
00:02:30 You know, I was taught,
"do it simple and do it well,"
which is a D112 in the kick drum.
00:02:35 - Okay.
00:02:37 - A Shure 57 on the snare.
- Yeah.
00:02:40 - And then I have these Flea 49s
we're going to use for the overheads.
00:02:44 - All right.
- And they're fantastic.
00:02:47 And I think if you can't do with that
then you have some sort of problem.
00:02:51 - Then you need to consider
a different career.
00:02:57 - So, you know,
overhead placement can be varied.
00:03:03 - I'll change it around from song to song.
- Okay.
00:03:06 - Based on what?
- You know, how they're hitting.
- Me too!
- Yeah, how they're hitting.
00:03:12 Sometimes I just want to hear
different things when I mix
so I just change it out of
sheer boredom, I guess.
00:03:18 But I usually just do them
leveled and over the kit,
a spaced pair.
00:03:26 - A spaced pair.
- That's what I'll do today.
00:03:28 - This is a weird exercise because
we are recording drums into nowhere.
00:03:33 - Yeah, there's no band to hear.
00:03:37 - Yeah, complete freedom.
00:03:38 - Yeah, so I'm going to make these
really wide just because, why not?
We don't have room mics on this one,
so I'll actually move this up
a little bit, I think.
00:03:49 - Do you measure?
- No. Do you?
- Pfff! I don't even know how to count
to four. It's a problem every time.
00:03:55 - And if you did, it would
probably be in metric!
- Well... No, no.
00:04:00 No, I don't measure,
but I know some really wonderful engineers
who measure and get great results.
00:04:05 - Yeah, yeah. I just don't know
how many inches. That's all.
00:04:09 - Nobody in this room
would like it loose.
00:04:12 - Yeah.
00:04:13 - So, a lot of people are super-obsessed
with how they place
their inside kick drum microphone.
00:04:20 - I am as well.
- Okay, so how do you do it?
- I do it...
00:04:26 I like a front head on.
00:04:28 - Okay.
00:04:32 - This microphone is sitting right here
towards this corner,
facing the beater.
00:04:38 - Okay.
00:04:40 - I feel I get a lot of nice
low end there.
00:04:43 - Yup.
00:04:44 - But not too much click.
- Hah!
- So, if I want more click,
I can bring it in.
00:04:50 I will usually in a session
have an outside kick mic here,
and then I blend those two.
00:04:57 So if this is the D112,
this is the outside kick, like an 87.
00:05:03 And these are the faders,
and when I do a ballad
I just do this, or if it's...
00:05:08 - A little more pedal, a little more...
- Yeah, you know.
00:05:12 And then I don't have to use
a ton of EQ,
which has its own problems.
00:05:17 - Yes.
00:05:20 - Cool.
- But that's, you know,
people get dogmatic on microphones,
some people slam the 57.
00:05:26 I think it's one of the best...
00:05:28 - I think the basic system
of micing your snare drum
is first you pull out a 57
and then you listen to it.
00:05:34 - Yeah.
00:05:35 - Then you tell yourself,
"Hmm, I could be better,"
so you swap it with something else,
and then you try whatever else you have,
and then you try another one,
then you try another one,
and then it's time to record the song
and you tell your assistant,
"Why don't you just put the 57 back on,"
and then you record the song.
00:05:51 That's the process for me anyway.
00:05:53 - You know, I believe this to be true,
is drummers play better
when they know it's not a big deal
if they hit a microphone.
00:06:01 - Is that true?
- Well, you're an engineer.
00:06:04 - I think it helps.
00:06:05 - It helps!
- Yes, I think the goal
is to not hit any mic.
00:06:08 - Yes, if I put a KM 84 there and make
the mistake of telling the drummer,
"This is a KM 84, don't hit it,"
they're not going to play as well,
and my job is to record them playing
as well as they can.
00:06:19 - Well, I can tell you that in New York
I do sessions with lots of drummers
who can care less where the microphone is.
00:06:25 - That's New York.
- Yeah, they'll hit anything.
00:06:28 - They'll brag about it!
- Yeah, they don't care.
00:06:32 "I just destroyed a microphone.
Is that a problem?" "No, that's okay."
- Yeah.
- "That was just a KM 84,"
or an irreplaceable 56, or whatever.
00:06:42 - "George Neumann made it himself."
- Yeah, with his little, frail hands.
00:06:46 - "On his deathbed.
00:06:47 And you smashed it on a flam."
- All right, so they're
almost the same height-ish.
00:06:54 - I'll take this one up.
- Ah!
- All right.
- How does that look?
- Bananas.
- Yeah!
- Yeah.
00:07:05 And you're worrying about...
Not measuring, we know that,
but about the distance so that
the snare/kick thing is in the middle?
- You know,
I haven't fully figured
that out because...
00:07:19 - ...I want to get the width of the kit.
- Yeah.
00:07:22 - And I'll balance it...
- On the desk?
- On the desk, so the snare
is in the middle.
00:07:28 Because if there was a cymbal here,
or toms, I want to be over them.
00:07:32 - Right.
00:07:33 - You know? So I just listen to that
and balance it and go.
00:07:37 - Sounds great.
- So that's what I do.
00:07:39 I could change it next month,
I don't know.
00:07:41 But every time I have measured it,
they sit where I don't like
the way they look.
00:07:45 - And I'm being serious,
where it looks like it would sound...
00:07:48 - I know exactly what
you're talking about.
00:07:50 I have been experimenting
with something that Frank Filipetti
showed me one day,
which is to consider the set
being in this direction
as opposed to think of the set this way.
00:08:03 - Think of the set in this direction.
- Oh, okay.
00:08:05 - And if you think of the set
in this direction, then you...
00:08:07 It's a different sound,
but what it does is that
when you rely on...
00:08:13 for a jazz record, for example,
or for a world music record
where a lot of the sound
of the drums is actually,
for me, the way I do it,
is 90% overheads,
but you do need a little presence if
someone is playing brushes or something.
00:08:25 If you work that way,
if you put your overheads this way,
when you raise the snare,
it drags to the left,
and it's a pain in the butt.
00:08:34 And so if you consider the stereo
to not be this way, but this way,
which is not drummer's perspective
—which freaks drummers out—
then, when you put the snare,
it's right in the middle.
00:08:46 Because the bass drum
is unidirectional, actually.
00:08:49 And it's also great for the ride
because the ride is slightly
to the right of the snare,
and so if you have somebody
who plays, like, Elvin Jones style,
and who's really kind of like buoyant,
let's just say, on the ride,
instead of having all that energy
on the right side,
you have the energy
slightly right off center,
you have the backbeat and all
that energy on the left hand
slightly left off center,
and you have a space right in the middle
for the horn, and it works great for that.
00:09:15 So since he told me that
I've been doing that.
00:09:17 For rock records where somebody
is going to hit...
00:09:21 ...it doesn't drag...
00:09:22 - Yeah, you know,
on rock records, which I do,
I'm looking to make sure this crash
and this crash are the same volume.
00:09:29 - Exactly, and you can't do it that way.
00:09:32 - No. And you mentioned drummer's
perspective, I do drummer's perspective.
00:09:37 - Yeah, because we have
much respect for drummers.
00:09:39 - Yeah, and I was taught
everybody you see playing
along with a record in a car...
00:09:44 - ...is playing like the drummer.
- Yes.
00:09:46 - They're not doing this.
- Yeah, that's true!
All right! So this is great,
let's go listen to it upstairs.
00:09:53 - Thank you very much.
- Sweet! Thank you, Kate.
00:09:55 - All right, we're back here,
you have faders, console,
how are you going to do this?
- This is a 1978 MCI console, 400 Series.
It has 28 of its own mic pres.
00:10:07 - Yes.
00:10:08 - And a few years ago
we added 20 API mic pres
from Jeff Steiger at CAPI,
so they're actually CAPI pres.
00:10:16 And we have the ability
to switch between them.
00:10:19 - Okay.
00:10:20 - So kick, snare and overheads
are plugged into our mic box,
and we can switch. So I'm going to pull up
some sounds with Kate on drums,
and I'll level-match
between those two pres.
00:10:30 - Okay.
00:10:31 - And then we'll record just the MCIs,
and then we'll record just the APIs.
00:10:36 - And then move on to other goodies.
- Yeah, exactly.
00:10:38 - All right, that sounds like a plan.
- Cool!
- I'll just shut up and watch.
- All right, here we go.
00:10:43 Hey Kate, just go ahead
and give me the groove, please.
00:10:45 I'll send her a click.
00:10:48 So we'll start with the overheads.
00:11:46 And here's the kick.
00:12:17 - Don't worry, Chris
is just level-matching.
00:12:19 We'll do critical listening after.
00:12:52 How do you balance to tape?
"Tape," since we're going to Pro Tools.
00:12:57 - I just look at the meters
and make sure it isn't too hot.
00:12:59 - Do you make your sound here,
now, with the balance,
or do you optimize your levels?
How do you usually...
00:13:06 When you work with tape,
how do you work?
- I get the levels I want on the channels
and then I mix after that.
00:13:13 - Okay. Because of noise?
Or because of...?
- Yeah, because of tape.
00:13:18 Because I want to get as much signal
no matter what the format is, on tape,
so I compress and EQ
on the way to my media.
00:13:24 - Okay.
- Or medium.
00:13:26 - We're not going to compress or EQ.
- No, it's flat.
00:13:28 - So basically you're going to print
however you want and...
00:13:32 Well, in this case we got to basically
listen to what you print in all cases.
00:13:36 - Yeah. Just for simplicity,
I'm not going to do a mix.
00:13:38 We're just going to hear
what we printed exactly.
00:13:41 - Sounds good.
- Cool.
00:13:42 - And then we can solo the different
microphones if we want to.
00:13:45 Do you want to record, like,
16 bars of each?
- That sounds like a great idea.
00:13:50 - Oh, yeah. 16 bars
is a good number of bars.
00:13:52 - Cool!
Okay, Kate.
00:13:55 So, Kate, what we're going to do
is do 16 bars,
and this is just in case you care.
00:14:03 - This is MCI. Okay?
- [Kate] Cool.
00:14:08 - Go for it.
00:15:00 Thank you, Kate.
00:15:01 - So I got these grouped.
- Yeah.
00:15:04 - So I'm just going to switch groups
to the APIs.
00:15:09 - Okay.
00:15:10 - I'll mute the MCIs.
00:15:12 Okay. Kate, I'm rolling.
00:15:14 Try to do the same kind of thing.
Here we go.
00:16:08 Thank you.
00:16:10 So, do you want me to switch
to the Trident?
- Yeah, let's just record everything
and then we can compare everything.
00:16:16 - Give me about 30 seconds, Kate.
00:16:19 - The question is, did you guys
already make an opinion
as to what you like better,
or maybe you like them both,
but can you quantify
the difference between the two?
I find that very interesting myself.
00:16:30 - Yeah, so,
this was the first time,
once we did this modification,
we were able to hear that quickly.
00:16:37 - Yeah.
00:16:38 - And what I learned right away
is it's not night and day.
00:16:40 - No.
00:16:41 - It's not "I'm doing a demo,
I'm doing a record."
- It's not that at all.
- No.
00:16:45 Well, they're both really great,
extremely well designed.
00:16:47 I know what I like better,
but I'm not gonna tell no one.
00:16:51 Talk to me about that Trident
which is our next victim.
00:16:54 - Yeah, so,
this is a Trident 80B, which is
one of my favorite consoles ever.
00:16:59 If I didn't have this console,
I would have that.
00:17:02 As the studio grew and we added
more and more mic lines and stuff,
and our sessions got bigger,
- 28 inputs kind of got small.
- Yeah.
00:17:10 - Especially on sessions with B3 and piano
and Wurli and DIs and all that.
00:17:16 - Stereo is the killer.
00:17:17 - Yeah!
So I was lucky enough to find a 10-channel
sidecar with its own motherboard.
00:17:23 This has 6 Buses, Direct Outs, Inserts.
00:17:27 - Where did you find that?
- A guy in England had it.
00:17:30 - And when is it from?
- It's a vintage one. Probably mid 80's,
I would say. I don't know.
00:17:36 The only modification they did
was they added a fader here
instead of the fader on the channel.
00:17:42 - Which works for you.
- It's great.
00:17:44 And it was recapped and everything.
00:17:46 We literally cut a hole in this
and dropped it in,
and then it had wiring
and a really good power supply.
00:17:52 - Did it come with fries on the side?
- Basically. Yeah.
00:17:55 And it was 5,500 bucks,
which isn't a lot of money for this.
00:17:59 - No, for this thing, absolutely not.
00:18:00 - It's a game changer, so,
on sessions I do, I'll typically
put all the keyboards over there,
bus them out, and just
unmute what I need
if it's just one player.
00:18:08 But a lot of times
just to do something different
I'll put all the drums there.
00:18:12 - 10 channels is perfect.
- Yeah.
00:18:14 - So now have 38 inputs, which is a lot.
00:18:17 If you have more than 38 microphones
hanging up at a time,
I should charge a lot more money.
00:18:24 - We have 36 at Flux.
00:18:26 - Yeah, and that's a lot!
I mean, that's a lot.
00:18:28 - They get filled, man.
- Yeah.
00:18:30 - Like when you do a string session.
- Yeah. True, true.
00:18:33 - And if you're silly enough
to be doing a string session live
with some rhythm section too,
which is the dumbest thing
to do in the universe.
00:18:41 - Yeah. So, Nick, 3-4, 5-6?
- Nick,
the silent Nick who just
appeared magically
is Chris' assistant.
00:18:49 - He's awesome!
- He's awesome.
00:18:56 - This may take me a minute.
00:18:58 I don't have the gain stages
quite dialed in.
00:19:00 When you get to know
a console, you can just...
00:19:03 - Yes.
00:19:04 - "Oh, I'm doing a kick drum,"
you flip this, and you're in the ballpark.
00:19:07 I haven't really figured out
where zero is on this fader yet.
00:19:11 - Okay.
- But...
00:19:12 - That's okay.
00:19:13 - I want to make sure
I match the gain stage.
00:19:16 - Yeah.
00:19:17 - I don't want to have the fader wide open
and the mic pre cranked.
00:19:19 - Yes.
00:19:20 You just brought up
a very interesting point.
00:19:22 There is an engineer in New York
named Michael Tudor.
00:19:27 Everybody called him "momma" because
he took care of everybody very well.
00:19:30 And he's still around,
he's a wonderful engineer.
00:19:33 And he showed up at my studio
and showed me how to use my console,
which was not humiliating at all.
00:19:41 And so he showed up,
and this is what he did:
- He jacked up the fader all the way.
- Yep.
00:19:49 - And so I stepped back
two feet, you know,
because I know that console,
and he would, like,
play between the gain of the microphone
and the fader.
00:20:00 And if he wanted
a lot of transformer action,
he would jack the fader up all the way.
00:20:04 That's the way it works
on my console, apparently.
00:20:07 Or he would pad the fader and then
go crazy with the mic pre and saturate,
which, I would do that,
but I had never thought of jacking up
the fader and taking it down.
00:20:15 And you can actually modulate
how much of the console tone you get.
00:20:18 - Yes.
00:20:20 - How does it work on your thing?
Everybody thinks you put the fader at zero
and then you jack up your thing
until you no longer distort. Joy.
But there's more to it than that.
00:20:28 - There is.
- What is it?
- Well, as I was explaining,
I don't really know the topology
of this one well enough.
00:20:34 I just got it,
so I kind of play around with it.
00:20:37 But, to your point,
I just found out a while ago
that zero isn't zero on my fader, it's -6.
00:20:44 - Oh, that's fun.
00:20:45 I know why that is.
00:20:47 Somebody aligned your console
so you have more headroom.
00:20:49 - Exactly. They put a resistor in
so I can drive my pres harder.
00:20:53 - It's quieter, but with more punch.
- Exactly.
00:20:55 - An engineer came in and had
documented another console,
and couldn't get his...
He was like, "It's 6 dB too hot!"
And I was like, "Oh!"
and then I started looking
because I never really...
00:21:04 Anyway, right now
I have these around zero,
- and these mic pres up.
- Okay.
00:21:10 - So I'm going to make sure that I'm
thinking about that here too, right?
It's really what the point was,
because gain staging is important.
00:21:17 - Super-crucial.
- Yeah.
00:21:19 - It will make the EQ sound different.
- Yes, it will.
00:21:21 - If you jack up really hard into the EQ,
meaning, if you keep your fader down
and you jack up your gain on your mic pre,
and you want to add a lot of energy
on a bass drum, for example,
this will become unhappy much faster
and the bottom will not be as clean
as if you have more gain on the fader,
and lower the input from the mic pre,
the gain from the mic pre.
00:21:43 That way you have more energy
that you can add from the EQ.
00:21:46 And it's very perverse
because
once you start getting your balance,
if you don't plan ahead,
it's really difficult to rebalance
an 8 or 10-channel drum set
and then you start with not being able
to make the most out of your EQ.
00:22:02 - Correct.
- It makes a big difference.
00:22:03 - Yeah, and this console's topology
is actually mic pre, fader, then EQ.
00:22:08 - Oh!
- So the relationship
is just mic pre-fader.
00:22:11 To your point, you don't lose
headroom on your EQ.
00:22:14 - Well, that's a very smart design.
- Yeah, it is.
00:22:16 - My console is...
00:22:19 They are cassettes, right?
So it's a pre into EQ,
and the fader is actually...
00:22:25 We modded our console so that the...
00:22:29 we have a split in between
the Output of the EQ
and the Input of the monitor section.
00:22:34 And so, if we flip the switch,
the Output of the EQ
goes straight to Pro Tools
and the Return of that channel
comes back,
so I can do a mix in real time.
00:22:44 If the switch is down,
it's one complete channel,
and this will send out.
00:22:49 This is my Direct Out level
to Pro Tools.
00:22:53 That mode that "momma"
showed me, he said,
"You know, since you kept that mode..."
Because the other mode was added by us,
"Since you kept that mode,
check this out."
And he just, like, got so much
more glow out of the EQ,
and he was able to get
a super-fat bass drum
by jacking up the bottom of that
Neve EQ, it was ridiculous,
and so he was able to do
a lot more than I ever was.
00:23:19 Because also,
headroom is one thing,
but if you add...
00:23:24 Say you take a D112
and you want to keep
your phase really tight,
and you only have that,
like you just did,
but you still want some serious bottom,
you add 6 dB at like...
00:23:35 whatever, 60 Hz,
it's not linear.
00:23:38 The transients, the energy,
since you're not compressing,
if the drummer hits really hard
on one peak, it's an enormous peak,
and you need a lot of headroom
to be able to handle that much energy.
00:23:48 I've found it's not a linear boost,
and that really made
a big difference,
so I'm curious to know
what happens over there.
00:23:54 - Yep! Let's find out.
- Yep.
00:23:56 - Have you patched over, Nick? Awesome.
00:23:59 Okay, Kate. Go ahead and just
give me a kick drum, please.
00:24:05 - Wow!
- Snare.
00:24:27 All right. Just play the groove, please.
00:25:05 - Chris is level-matching,
which is not easy
because you have a live drummer
and a recording and everything,
but...
00:25:12 - ...the kick didn't take too long.
- It was great.
00:25:14 - The overheads, there was
some phase thing issue,
but the snare was way too off
for it to make any kind of sense to us,
so we collectively at the same time felt,
"Let's switch channels to make sure
that is not an issue with that channel,"
because that was too much
of a difference for it to make sense.
00:25:34 The phase thing couldn't be a mic cable
because it's the same mic cable,
so it would be something
in your console.
00:25:40 - That, or a patch cable.
00:25:41 - Oh, a patch cable!
- Yeah.
00:25:43 - That's right.
- Yeah.
00:25:45 - Aren't those the same
patch cables we used for this?
- No.
- Ah! It could be a patch cable.
00:25:51 Some troubleshooting would ensue.
00:25:53 - Yeah, the first thing I do
is make sure all the patch cables
are plugged all the way in,
because if they're not,
they will be phase-inverted.
00:25:59 - So let's check this out.
- And those are things that...
00:26:03 ...can survive a console
for a couple of years sometimes.
00:26:06 - Yes.
00:26:07 - Because your bass...
00:26:08 you'll never know if your bass
is actually in phase with the guitar.
00:26:11 - And the other thing
is you never have time
to troubleshoot
in the middle of a session.
00:26:14 - Exactly.
00:26:15 - Because somebody has got to go
and feed the meter.
00:26:17 Well, in New York you have to
go feed the meter,
- you have to feed meters very often.
- But you're...
00:26:22 - Quick.
- Yeah.
00:26:23 - All right, let's see if that
snare channel was...
00:26:26 - All right. Here we go, Kate.
00:26:36 - It's a lot louder.
00:26:38 - Yeah, probably because
we're trying to make up for it.
00:26:53 Okay. Thank you, Kate.
00:26:55 - So that was a bad channel.
- Yeah.
00:26:56 - Or something is going on
with a switch on that channel.
00:26:59 - Maybe. Yeah.
00:27:00 It doesn't have much low end.
00:27:02 - So, that happened.
00:27:04 Let's record this.
00:27:05 - And again, that kind of stuff
escapes sessions
because you would just go,
"Oh, I'll add some bottom."
- Right.
- Or, "What's over that snare?"
- Yeah.
- So, okay.
00:27:14 Here we go, Kate.
Same countoff, please.
00:28:08 Okay. Let me listen to
one thing real quick.
00:28:16 - What are you looking for?
- I hear a little bit of buzz
in those overheads.
00:28:22 - What could that be?
- I don't know.
00:28:27 - Do you remember what the MCI
or API sounded like
after all this time level-matching
and the Trident?
I...
00:28:38 I didn't exactly...
00:28:40 Personally I have, like,
emotions or feelings attached to it,
but I can't quantify it.
00:28:46 I still have a favorite, but I can't...
00:28:49 Maybe when we start listening in line
then I will figure out that my favorite is
actually the least favorite, I don't know.
00:28:54 - Yes.
00:28:57 - Do you want to do the Neves,
or do you want to chase this buzz?
- Let's chase this real quick.
Do you have a minute?
- We have all the minutes in the universe.
00:29:05 The hard drives are cheap.
00:29:06 - So where are we
with the ground lift on those?
- [Nick] The ground lifts
are plugged directly into the wall.
00:29:14 - I mean, are they lifted or not?
- [Nick] Yeah, they're lifted.
00:29:16 - So unlift them.
00:29:17 - This was unplanned.
00:29:19 Chris was talking to Nick, his assistant,
and asking him if the Flea 49 microphones
were plugged into the wall flipped,
or not flipped with the ground,
and they were flipped
because of the console.
00:29:30 They sounded... We needed to flip them
to not have the buzz in the console.
00:29:33 Let's see what happens with the Trident.
00:29:35 - Yeah, exactly, because
it's a different power supply.
00:29:37 You kind of chase things once in a while
and for some reason those Fleas
need to have ground lifts on them.
00:29:43 It's kind of weird.
00:29:45 Even though everything is properly
grounded in the studio, some things...
00:29:49 - I know.
- You know.
00:29:50 Do you hear it now?
- Yep.
- Yeah, that's the same.
00:29:55 It's the same.
00:29:57 It's the same, so,
we'll go with that.
00:30:00 - Let's switch to the Neve 1073
emulations...
00:30:04 - ...and see what happens there.
- Okay.
00:30:06 - Okay, sounds good.
- Cool!
- So Nick is going to come around
and patch. Right, Nick?
- Yeah.
00:30:12 - Nick is the patcher.
- Yeah.
00:30:14 - All right.
- Cool.
00:30:25 - So, again, I'm going to punch in
on our existing...
00:30:27 - Do you want me to punch in for you?
- Yes.
00:30:42 - It needs to be louder.
00:30:46 Switch to Neve.
00:30:54 Bring it down a little.
00:30:58 Old.
00:30:59 That's fine.
00:31:01 - Snare.
- Yeah, so let's solo the snare.
00:31:04 - One more time, coming your way.
00:31:50 Okay, now we're going to do the overheads.
00:31:52 Here we go.
00:32:18 Awesome! Now we're going to
record the whole thing.
00:32:21 I'm going to leave the computer
back to Chris.
00:33:19 Cool! Thank you.
00:33:21 And now we're going to geek out.
00:33:24 Because that wasn't geeky at all,
what's happened so far.
00:33:26 - No, no. We have yet to begin.
00:33:30 - All right!
Ladies and gentlemen,
Chris and myself just spent
a few minutes off-camera
fine-tuning the level-matching
between the different things
because this is definitely not
an exact science.
00:33:44 - No.
00:33:45 - I remember Lynn Fuston
did something similar a while back,
but he was very scientific about it.
00:33:51 That was awesome, but for our purpose
that's not the point.
00:33:54 The point is
you are all out there
buying equipment
— or lusting after equipment —
and that
maybe we all feel that if we have
that one piece of gear,
our life is going to change forever.
00:34:07 It will probably get better,
but maybe it's true, maybe it's not.
00:34:11 And so,
what's interesting about
this kind of listening thing
is that it's more of a feel thing...
00:34:17 - ...than an absolute reality thing.
- Right.
00:34:19 - Because it's basically impossible
to match, plus,
Kate played differently every time
because she's a human being,
and even though she's tight
and she can really play well,
there's no two bass drum hits the same
within the same performance,
let alone an hour apart.
00:34:32 So there are so many variables
that you have to listen to this
in the spirit of...
00:34:39 what is the impact?
What matters?
What is the feel thing?
What is the economics thing?
And what can I draw out of it?
So I think it would be very interesting
to start in order
and listen to
two bars of MCI,
two bars of API,
two bars of Trident,
and two bars of the Neves, and then
not talk, let's just listen,
then we pow wow.
00:35:06 - Let's do that.
- Sweet.
00:35:07 - So, MCI.
- Let's rock.
00:35:59 So there you have it, we have four
very, very different sets of mic pres
based on different topologies and
different input and output transformer,
different everything.
00:36:09 Two of which are in the console
from the late 70's,
one is a rescued thing from the 80's,
and those two over there
are emulations
of very revered mic preamps
made by Rupert,
1073, and I guess they are
from the 70's also.
00:36:28 Was that night and day?
I don't think it qualifies
as night and day.
00:36:33 - No.
00:36:34 - Did you guys expect night and day?
I didn't expect night and day because I've
done this before, because I'm a geek.
00:36:38 - I haven't.
00:36:39 - I haven't with these particular things.
- True.
00:36:41 - But I have
asked myself the question,
- "What am I chasing after?" You know.
- Yeah.
00:36:50 - I don't own a 1073.
00:36:52 I have a lot of 33 series
which are class AB,
same kind of topology.
00:36:58 And there's this thing
that's pushed on us
by a lot of people that...
00:37:03 you know, "If you want to track
a vocal professionally,
you have to have a 1073
with an LA-2A,
and it has to be made between
May 1973 and June 1974,
and it has to have been built
the day it was raining outside."
- Exactly.
00:37:18 - "If you have that,
then you'll have a badass vocal.
00:37:20 If you don't have that,
you might as well just switch to, like,
hairdressing or something
like that for a career."
And that's actually complete,
utter bullsh*t.
00:37:27 As you can tell from these things,
this is a great console
and they sound bananas, these preamps.
00:37:35 The APIs are CAPI APIs,
they're fantastic.
00:37:38 Every studio I go to, especially
in Nashville, has CAPIs everywhere.
00:37:41 - Yeah.
00:37:42 - And
the Vintechs I don't know as much,
but they're in your rack
so they must be great.
00:37:47 And the Heritage Audio,
they're really good people
and you know they spent a lot
of energy making that happen.
00:37:51 So it's not night and day.
However, I heard differences,
and the differences are rather subtle,
but they exist.
00:37:58 I don't know if you noticed,
but the first thing I noticed
is for the process of recording
the Neves had a lot more transient,
and they clipped faster
than the APIs, the vintage ones.
00:38:13 Basically they were much faster,
the transient went through
the preamps faster,
which for me would make it more difficult
to get a controlled sound.
00:38:21 I'd rather have...
00:38:23 With an even feel,
I'd rather have something like your MCI,
or the Trident,
or the CAPI
to control the transient a little bit.
00:38:36 Because for example, these are drums,
- and you know you will compress them.
- Yeah.
00:38:40 - And
if you capture the sound
with more transient and it's faster,
it's more difficult to gain-stage.
00:38:46 So that is something to consider,
for example,
that I did not expect at all.
00:38:51 Before we share
our vision of what we heard,
I think we should do another pass
and maybe give you pointers
because the differences are subtle,
in case you didn't latch on it
and you got lost.
00:39:05 Listen to the top of the bass drum
and the bottom of the snare on all passes.
00:39:08 That's the first thing you do.
00:39:10 For 4 bars, focus on that every time.
00:39:13 And then on the second set of 4 bars
you can listen to the brightness
of the cymbals.
00:39:18 Register that on the first pass
and then see if you can keep
that feeling across the different passes,
which is hard to do,
but let's do it anyway.
00:39:25 - Yeah.
- All right.
00:39:26 So let's start with the MCI
and play the same thing,
and then just play the whole thing down.
00:40:22 I think it would be easier for everyone
to hear the difference
if it's a more present sound,
so I think we should mute
the overheads on all the passes
and start listening again to the
four passes, just kick and snare.
00:40:37 And I think some
of the more obvious differences
will come forward...
00:40:43 - ...because there's no wash of the room.
- True.
00:40:45 - And so we'll hear more transient.
Let's do that.
00:40:47 - Okay. So I'll just mute
all the overheads.
00:40:50 Sweet.
00:40:53 - And we'll start with the MCI.
00:41:45 Ha!
Now what?
- Much more obvious differences.
- Yeah.
00:41:52 - Oh, yeah. To me, much more
obvious differences.
00:41:54 First...
00:41:56 before we share our vision,
let's do it again
and focus on
the energy in the bottom
of the bass drum.
00:42:04 That's where you'll hear it right away.
00:42:06 Make an imprint of what the MCI does,
and then
try and carry that feeling over
across the four different takes.
00:42:15 Let's start with the MCI
and then go to the Neve,
and then go to the API,
and then go to the Trident.
00:42:25 And it's going to be more obvious
what the differences are.
00:43:22 I think you made a good purchase
with this console.
00:43:25 - Because it sounds really bananas.
- It does.
00:43:28 - Let's play the MCI
and then
let's play the Trident right after.
00:43:59 You hear how
just round the MCI is
and how together it is.
00:44:05 It's really a great, super-controlled,
rich mic pre.
00:44:10 The Trident is nice too,
but it's a little more naive
and it's got a little more transient,
kind of like a
loose transient thing.
00:44:16 It's not as compact.
00:44:18 Another thing that's amazing
is if you play the MCI again
and then play the Neves.
00:44:22 It's mind-boggling,
the difference in transient.
00:44:49 - Is this wild? Yeah.
00:44:51 - Yeah, it's like, every time we switch
I hear differences,
and sometimes I switch
and I look to see if I changed it.
00:44:57 It's...
00:44:58 I wonder... I'm asking myself,
1, if it matters at all.
00:45:01 - Aha! Very good question!
- I'm not hearing demos and records.
- No.
00:45:07 - Secondly, I'm wondering if I would hear
more difference in a track, or less.
00:45:11 - Less.
00:45:12 - You think less? I think more.
I don't know.
00:45:15 - Less, because just like we heard less
difference when the overheads were on...
00:45:19 At least I heard less difference
with the overheads on.
00:45:22 Because it's all a question
of incremental differences,
which is why it's really important
that you should do more tests
like this if you are a gearhead,
or if you really want to reach
the next level.
00:45:33 We're talking about 5% differences
and
a 1073 is $6,000 dollars.
00:45:41 The UA plug-in is like...
8 bucks or whatever.
00:45:44 How much is it? 200 bucks.
00:45:45 Or maybe they charge
more for that one
because it says 1073 on it, you know?
And it's only fair because they spent
a lot of time modeling it
and it's very close,
and that's why whenever I hear people say,
"Oh, does the plug-in sound
like the hardware?"
"Does the re-edition
sound like the original?"
And
unless you're dealing with really
low quality, broken,
'not happening' stuff,
I don't think it matters that much
as long as
the experience and the feeling are right.
00:46:19 But if you do want to go for the extra 5%,
1%, or whatever you want to call it,
that tiny little thing that is different,
that's very tenuous
because it could be corrupted
by moving a fader up 0.5 dB, you know?
But if you want to really go
into that ultra-particular workflow,
then I listen to this,
I listen to your console,
and I listen to the... Heritage,
I will right away pick
your console for the bass drum.
00:46:52 - Yeah.
00:46:53 - Because I like how it pushes
the bottom forward.
00:46:55 Could I have that with an EQ?
Maybe, but I would have to look for it.
00:46:59 - It's built-in here.
- Yeah.
00:47:01 - And I like that the transient
is controlled.
00:47:04 Could I compress it using the Heritage?
Yeah, of course,
but here I don't have to.
I don't have to look for it.
00:47:10 This piece of gear
offers me a certain look
that the other doesn't,
which means that if I use the Neves
it will push me in a certain direction
that is going to be
a more dynamic direction,
or a less controlled direction,
and I will probably spend
more time mixing it.
00:47:27 If I'm making a wide-open record
that has to have this, like,
world music, super-present...
00:47:33 like you can almost
touch the transients,
I will go with the Neve.
00:47:36 If I want to have
more of a controlled,
super-vibey vintage thing,
then I'll go with your console,
which is interesting because the Neve
is supposed to be an emulation
of an older thing than your console.
00:47:48 - Correct.
00:47:48 - So there's no rhyme or reason to it.
- No.
00:47:51 - The thing is that if you put yourself
in the condition
of being able to truly listen to things
without the bias of maybe
having just bought a piece of gear
that you spent a lot of money on
—there's your condition to like it—,
just with true objectivity,
and also objectivity
as to what your impact is
on the usage of the gear,
and what the impact of the gear
is on your vision, sonically,
all of a sudden
things level out quite a bit.
00:48:18 - Yes.
00:48:19 - To me, the fact
that you have this console,
just the workflow...
00:48:23 I love these preamps,
I'm so going to go look
for one of these somewhere online
because, you know,
you can't help yourself.
00:48:30 But
just the workflow of it
that you can switch between two
very close colors of mic pres.
00:48:37 I thought that the APIs
were not as fat
and not as present,
- which could be great for certain things.
- Exactly.
00:48:47 - I felt that the Tridents, to me,
were less interesting
than either of these two,
but I felt also that maybe
for something
that needs to be more lively,
- that would be great, you know?
- Yeah.
00:48:59 - But the difference is... this much.
00:49:01 - Yeah. And, you know,
if we didn't have those choices
we would EQ a little top on that
or a little low mids on the Trident
so it gives us that same...
00:49:10 And you would instinctively,
I think, do that.
00:49:12 - Yes, you would, which brings us
back to the conversation of,
does it matter?
And how far does it matter?
And what's the impact?
There's the sound,
- and there's the workflow.
- Yeah.
00:49:26 - There's the vibe, meaning,
is it cool to be able to push faders here
and be in the sweet spot,
and flip one switch?
And everything here looks like it's 1979,
and it's going to inspire people
to do certain things
as opposed to showing up in a place
that looked like...
00:49:45 Let's pick a year that wasn't necessarily
that great for music: 1998, right?
So it all impacts
the music in certain ways,
but not necessarily
in a completely rational, 100%,
you-pick-it-out,
this-sounds-better-than-that,
because that's not true.
00:50:06 - No, and I think...
00:50:08 Going back to when one
of the Tridents didn't sound right,
- we knew that wasn't...
- ...the Trident.
00:50:14 - Yeah. It wasn't like, "Oh, that's
a Trident, it sounds great!"
We were like, "Something is wrong."
Right?
- Yes.
- I'm going to grab something.
00:50:21 I'm looking at this bell.
I have this here.
00:50:23 Pardon me, I'm so rude.
00:50:25 - No, that's okay.
00:50:27 - This is a nice story.
00:50:28 So,
I went from assisting
on records at studios
to engineering records at studios,
so I found myself sitting behind
Neves and Tridents and APIs,
and you get conditioned to say,
"This has got to sound right
because it's an API."
So
this is actually a true story,
I used to wear this
because I would go to EQ something
and stop because I was like,
"Oh, that's an API,"
and this would hit me in the chest.
00:51:01 Do what I was going to do, right?
We thought, "Oh, that's wrong,"
and I went to...
00:51:05 And I went, "No," and then
this hit me and I went,
"Oh, yeah, we should just switch.
That's not right." You know what I mean?
- Yeah, a reminder.
- That kind of instinct... yeah.
00:51:13 Now I don't have to wear it anymore.
00:51:14 - You graduated, that's awesome.
- Yeah, but I hang it right there.
00:51:17 - Here's the thing though:
when we pulled up the Trident channel
and it sounded really thin,
we didn't think,
"Oh, the Trident is really thin."
We thought, "Hmm, that channel
must be broken,"
because
at this point in time in 2018,
21st century,
if you buy a piece of gear
and it's not broken,
it's going to be pretty good.
00:51:39 - Yeah.
00:51:40 - It's really difficult to buy
a bad piece of gear.
00:51:44 If it's a vintage piece of gear
and that happens, it's broken.
00:51:48 Even if it's a modern piece of gear
and that happens, it's broken.
00:51:51 - Yeah.
00:51:53 - In this day and age
it's impossible to buy
gear that's going to really be in the way,
unless you buy gear from...
00:52:01 1998. No, I'm kidding!
- Yeah.
00:52:05 - So the idea is...
00:52:08 and this is kind of the point
of this series, How To Listen,
is to really focus on what matters
and what doesn't,
and to really be able to tell
the difference between A and B and C,
and extract the value from that.
00:52:23 So,
you have the stems,
they're available there.
00:52:27 Download them,
import them in your DAW,
level them better than we did,
if you want to,
just make absolutely sure
that what you hear is what you get.
00:52:36 Then you can decide,
first, if you hear a difference
that matters to you.
00:52:41 If you don't,
maybe you're not ready
or maybe there is no difference,
or maybe you try again in one year.
00:52:48 Is it of value to you?
Is it useful to you
that there are differences?
If it's useful to you,
then find applications for that.
00:52:56 Or maybe one is not better
than the other,
maybe one is more useful for this
and one is more useful for that.
00:53:03 And then try and figure out
what you consider the range of difference
in between these different takes
of the same drummer,
same drums, same microphones,
same microphone lines,
the only difference being the mic pres.
00:53:20 Same converters and everything.
00:53:21 The only difference here was the mic pres
and maybe the levels a little bit
because it's basically impossible to
completely level-match
a drummer like that.
00:53:28 I think this is a very valuable exercise
both in minutiae
and also
kind of like a Zen exercise in,
like, you know,
"Let the water run under
the bridge, grasshopper."
- Yeah.
00:53:42 - "Grasshopper" wasn't Zen,
but you know what I mean.
00:53:44 - Yeah.
00:53:45 - So that's it for this second installment
of How To Listen: Vintage Gear edition
/ Mic Preamp edition
with Chris Mara
as the owner, operator and visionary
behind Welcome to 1979
in Nashville, Tennessee.
00:54:02 Thank you very much.
00:54:03 - You're welcome!
Thank you, Fab. I had a blast.
00:54:06 - Et voilà!
Once logged in, you will be able to read all the transcripts jump around in the video.
Fab Dupont is a award-winning NYC based record producer, mixing/mastering engineer and co-founder of pureMix.net.
Fab has been playing, writing, producing and mixing music both live and in studios all over the world. He's worked in cities like Paris, Boston, Brussels, Stockholm, London and New York just to name a few.
He has his own studio called FLUX Studios in the East Village of New York City.
Fab has received many accolades around the world, including wins at the Victoires de la Musique, South African Music awards, Pan African Music Awards, US independent music awards. He also has received Latin Grammy nominations and has worked on many Latin Grammy and Grammy-nominated albums.
man.. this is gold, i change my mind about gear.. thanks so much fab and chris
gopalmetro
2020 Sep 09
Absolutely love this series. Thank you for dining it!
MarcoPolo
2020 Jul 12
These "How to Listen" videos are golden, and this one is no exception. Nice session, Chris & Fab. Great instruction, examples, and discussion. Thanks!
Liight
2020 Jun 05
This video made me discover Elvin Jones.. And I have to say it is one of the most precious video on this website!!!
Jpg454
2020 May 18
Enjoyed this video! Curious which model of the CAPI preamps we're hearing ... is it the 312?
Gregb
2019 Dec 03
yeah, give me 30 sec kate! 15 mins later lmao
léo.ch
2019 Nov 02
I always felt that Neve is what"peoples" want/expect to hear on a record. But just because we heard it on so many hits that it got that familiar feeling and we want to hear it again, this is what feels legit, natural, evident? Also work for U47, LA2A...
My hear goes with MCI, kind of disappointing by the API
Also, so many things come in count : whats the genre and the speed of the song, the musician, how many instruments in the arrangemnt...some times what sound best for a drummer on a song sound bad the next day with another band... at the end its not a science and you do with what you got
Lucacherchi1
2019 Nov 01
Amazing video
Gerrygrimaud
2019 Oct 30
would also like to see you guys compare plugins from waves or UAD back to back with their original hardware versions.. i think that would be really helpful for alot of engineers
Gerrygrimaud
2019 Oct 30
Amazing video...
Jose Malqui
2019 Oct 19
Falta la traducción al español por favor :(
Sara Carter
2019 Oct 13
It's very common these days to work in isolation so to be able to virtually sit in on a test and discussion like this between two seasoned engineers is really interesting and beneficial. More like this please!
stefan.l
2019 Oct 09
Awesome video, but I can't see any stems
Rip0702
2019 Oct 07
Very insightful video! I would've loved to see how we would've perceived a Neve 1073 or API Plugin compared back to back with these hardware versions.
Angelrguez
2019 Oct 06
This is one of the best piece of educational video that exist. Thank you.
Stormwarner
2019 Oct 06
Great series! Thx! :)
dcastillo
2019 Oct 05
Thank you for this video!
marmull
2019 Oct 04
Great lesson! Please allow access to the stems
ProMix
2019 Oct 04
There are no stems! too . Please add project .
I enjoyed to from your video .It's amazing testing some gear ,faithfully .
Just , you can add SSL preamp to this compare .
I thinks 5% it's so important , because every 5% in record - edit - mixing - mastering can be add more than 50% resolution .
MCI - API - Trident - Heritage , I think Heritage is brighter and also more frequency in the bass . but MCI is relax and isochromatic sound . Trident , is like to heritage is strong and bright but not like heritage good bass frequency response . Also API is classic good sound .
studiosix
2019 Oct 03
I enjoyed all the sidebar conversations and the story of the bell. Question: What kind of CAPI mic pres where installed in the console? I got a VP312 in a lunch box. It's real clean
p_rzepka
2019 Oct 02
Great idea for a series. Especially for us less experienced mixers/engineers.
kevinnute
2019 Oct 02
Leaving Fab's useful observation about downstream mixing considerations aside for the moment, I found the Neve and the API more engaging than the MCI and the Trident from a "toe-tapping" standpoint. This could be related to the (very) slightly more prominent bottom of the MCI and the Trident.
The larger point remains: this is all great gear and it's all secondary to a great performance!! Thanks again for this really useful video:)
kevinnute
2019 Oct 02
This was really great: thank you:) A small editing suggestion if I may: leave a little more time between the tracks playback and the dialogue; give us a chance to grab the volume control:)
I pretty much agree with your comments on the sonics of the pres under test. There are some fairly subtle frequency response differences (they're all accurate in any meaningful sense) but what stood out for me was how much the difference in transient response affected my perception of the groove.
telepathy
2019 Oct 02
Not to be *that guy* but I would've loved to have seen this done with splitters, so that the same performance could be used for all four sets of pres.
