Fab looks at how to record a bass drum with two microphones and explores the benefits (and problems) of doing that.
Chapters: -Best positions with D112 + 47FET -Best positions with MD421+U87 -Best positions with M88+Royer122 -Checking phase relationships -Balancing the two mics -Guided comparisons between the different sounds, mics and positions
The attached zip file contains the audio examples of every single microphone pair in solo and in context with the snare and the overheads. Please download the files and use it to form your taste, experiment and help you choose which microphones you will be using next time.
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00:00:07 Good morning children!
Today, we're going to talk about
recording the bass drum with 2 mics,
with the return of our Men in Black
look-alike, Keenan.
00:00:15 Why 2 microphones?
Because it's useful
at the mix sometimes
to have 2 sources, 2 different
kinds of tones to blend.
00:00:23 So, we're going to try 2 microphones,
probably different pairs,
to see different variations,
and then we're gonna blend them.
00:00:30 The first pair is the one
that we liked
on the first "Recording the Bass Drum
with 1 Microphone" video,
saying, a D112 right inside here...
00:00:42 Let's see... Somewhere like this.
00:00:45 We liked that sound. That was cool.
00:00:48 And then, a 47 FET right outside.
00:00:53 Like this.
00:00:54 So now, if we like this sound,
and we like this sound...
00:00:58 what do they sound like together?
Tremendous question... Let's find out!
Cool! So, that's definitely more
raw material to work with
on my mix than if I only have
one mic.
00:01:27 And that's fun!
But it creates new problems.
00:01:31 There's one source of sound
and two points of capture,
which means that this source's sound
is gonna arrive to the 2 microphones
at different times, and that's gonna
create phase cancellations,
or phase enhancement.
00:01:43 So some of the bass is gonna go away,
and some of the bass
is gonna be enhanced,
randomly, depending on where
I put the microphones.
00:01:50 Even when you know it
and you're used to it,
it's still annoying and amazing,
every time.
00:01:56 So for example,
if I take this microphone,
and I push it back like a pinkie,
this is not gonna change the course
of modern music, right?
I moved it about this much.
Let's check this out!
So that's the problem!
Now, we have a fatter bass,
but what of the relationship between
this mic and the snare?
And these 2 mics and the overheads?
And the overheads and the snare?
And that's the problem with recording
drums, it can turn into a phase insanity,
so you have to be very careful
about what you're doing,
and that's by listening very intently
in the Control Room,
while you set up your mics.
So let's go do that.
00:02:47 Let's go to the Control Room to listen
to these 2 mics, and their relationship,
and what they respectively do,
and what they do together.
00:02:55 It's always a good idea to record
part of the song,
the song, not the hardest thing that
the drummer can play
as fast as he can, the actual song,
and then come listen to it
in the Control Room with the drummer.
00:03:07 Now, you have your point view, and then
you have the drummer's point of view,
he's been listening
to those drums for a while.
00:03:13 His view is a little skewed, because
he listens to them with his ears
and his body. You only listen to it
with your ears.
00:03:18 But it's nice to have feedback
from the actual player
and you can choose to ignore it,
I do very often!
Then, you listen to it,
and you make your judgment calls.
00:03:26 Let's do some listening!
The first thing I'd like to do
is to get a real feel
for the phase relationship.
00:03:32 So if I solo the outside drum,
and listen to the first placement,
it sounds like this.
00:03:44 And the second position...
00:03:51 As a reminder, the first position...
00:03:58 Very, very, very close!
They sound basically the same.
00:04:02 He played a little different,
but that's basically the same sound.
00:04:05 So then, let's not forget that it does
this when you listen to both
at the same time. So this is now
the first take with the 2 microphones.
00:04:21 And the second take
with both microphones.
00:04:30 If you're having a hard time
hearing it,
that's cool, let me show you a way
to focus on the difference.
00:04:36 Listen to the first take again,
I'll play it again,
and try and visualize just how tall
the bass drum is.
00:04:43 It's always good to add visuals
to sound.
00:04:46 So, let's say this is
how tall it is on the first pass,
and then when I play the second pass,
try and see if... maybe...
00:04:52 that's the high and that's the low,
see if the low drops,
because the high kind of stays
the same, see if the low drops,
if you can feel this happening,
kind of a weight down, or...
00:05:02 maybe this happens a little bit.
00:05:04 I'll play it again,
and see if that helps.
00:05:14 And on the second one...
00:05:23 Obviously, this is more subtle
than your regular A/B comparison,
but I think it's crucial.
00:05:28 If you're listening on your laptop's
speakers, or iPod headphones,
or if your sub is on stun,
or if you're listening from the other
side of the room
while doing email on a different
computer, I can't help you!
That said, I like the second take,
so I'm gonna stick to that.
00:05:41 And now, I'm gonna listen
to the inside mic
and outside mic separately,
and then blend them.
00:05:46 So the inside mic sounds like this.
00:05:52 Lots of beater...
00:05:54 lots of mechanical noise, really.
00:05:56 Very... real and organic.
00:06:00 Very drummer-oriented, right?
And then here's the outside one.
00:06:10 A lot rounder, a lot more like
what I'm hearing in the room,
if I'm far away enough from the drums.
Now, this is inside...
00:06:18 Outside...
00:06:20 Together!
They complement each other very well.
00:06:29 And the beauty, now that we have 2 mics,
is that we can play with the blend.
00:06:33 So let's start
with the inside microphone,
with no outside microphone, and raise
the outside microphone
until we get to something we like.
Here we go!
That's really beater-oriented, right?
If we go the other way,
if we start with all the outside mic
and no inside mic, and then raise it...
00:07:09 I kind of like that!
Because that's fat.
00:07:15 Of course, this is all pretty much
irrelevant without context,
because we have overheads, and snare,
and we have bleed of everything
into everything,
so let's play the whole drum set,
all the microphones, all 5 of them,
and then I'll play with
the 2 bass drum microphones,
and try and look into some interesting
sounds by changing the blend.
00:07:32 So first, let's select it.
00:07:34 Then I'll start with where I stopped:
more outside kick, less inside kick.
00:07:38 I'll play it once, then I'll change it,
maybe a couple of times,
so we can have flavors. Here we go!
So the one with more outside microphone
has more boom,
and the one with more inside microphone
has more punch,
which is what we expected.
00:08:07 Now it's all a question of taste,
and where you wanna put it.
00:08:09 I kind of like the other way around.
I like this...
00:08:19 I think it's a nice combination
of boom and punch.
00:08:23 But... maybe not necessarily
the sound I want for this song,
so maybe we should go back
to the studio and switch microphones,
and see what we get
with a different set!
Let's try something different.
00:08:33 For the very, very first session
I was in as an assistant,
really an intern,
really I was just looking at it,
the engineer did this:
he put a 421 inside... Like this...
00:08:44 Which at the time I thought:
hey, that's a tom microphone!
And then, he put an 87,
and I was like: What?
He has an 87, and he puts it
on a bass drum?
Woooh!!! I'd use it on vocals!
If I had one...
So let's listen to this.
00:09:15 Cool!
That sounds great.
It's so different, right?
But... I feel that if we move this
a little bit,
maybe we'll be able to use the phase
relationship between the 2 mics
to gain a little more bottom
out of this.
00:09:30 I like the percussion of it, but I'd
like it to have a little more... fat.
00:09:34 So I move it just a tiny bit.
00:09:36 Like this. Something like that.
00:09:39 Let's see what that does. Here we go.
00:09:57 Cool! That's pretty much what I wanted.
It's really nice,
and the phase relationship now
is really good,
and it gives me that punch,
but still some bottom.
00:10:06 There is no particular combination
that you're supposed to use,
you can use just about anything.
00:10:11 So why don't we try something else?
Two microphones that are not designed
to go on bass drums...
00:10:15 a vocal microphone...
00:10:17 This one happens to have
the particularity
that it really sounds natural,
and completely unprocessed.
00:10:22 And then, one other ribbon.
00:10:25 Ribbons are making a big comeback,
I think they're a great combination...
00:10:29 with DAW recording,
because they're so gentle.
00:10:32 This is a Royer R-122,
and this is a Beyer M88.
00:10:37 These are two microphones that are
maybe more transparent,
and less rock'n'roll sounding
if you will.
00:10:42 Let's check that out.
00:11:03 I think this is really cool,
I really like it.
00:11:05 It's fat, it's punchy, it doesn't have
any phase issues.
00:11:09 I think the 2 microphones really
complement each other
and make a whole that is bigger
than the sum of the parts.
00:11:15 To me, it sounds really
"mixed", almost.
00:11:18 I would have to work very little
on this
to make it sound the way I want
in my record.
00:11:22 Just so you know, everything today
is been done
just with the mic, the cable and
the preamp, no EQ, no compressor.
00:11:29 For the bass drum, the preamp is
a stereo 2108 by Universal Audio.
00:11:34 As a reference, the overheads
are a pair of 451s, AKGs,
through an SSL stereo preamp.
00:11:39 The snare drum is a 57
through a Neve preamp.
00:11:43 So why don't we go back
to the Control Room,
and A/B all the sets, and weigh
the pros and cons of every set.
00:11:49 Thank you Keenan!
Let's listen to all three in a row.
00:11:55 First, the D112 and the 47 FET
for a more traditional sound.
00:12:07 Then the 421 and the U-87.
00:12:16 And then the M88 and the R-122.
00:12:26 In a row, without talking,
it's even more striking.
00:12:28 Check it out. Same order,
all three in a row.
00:12:52 So the first one, the D112 / 47 FET,
is maybe more traditional,
more rock'n'roll...
00:12:57 The last one, M88 / R-122,
maybe more Pop-y, R'n'B-y...
00:13:01 and the one in the middle is,
well... in the middle.
00:13:04 As a summary, if you're looking
for a method to get
to a better bass drum sound, maybe
you should think of doing it this way.
00:13:12 First, pick your microphones based on
what's available to you,
or not available to you, and also
based on your experience,
maybe a little bit on this video,
until you get your own experience.
00:13:21 Once you have your choice
of microphones,
put the first microphone
inside the drum,
roughly in the position we showed you,
because...
00:13:29 I can vouch for it,
it works pretty well.
00:13:31 Once you have a tone you like there,
take your second microphone,
and put it on the outside,
and then raise the level
of the second microphone.
00:13:38 The point here is to make sure that
the second microphone
enhances what the first microphone
is doing,
and doesn't take anything away.
00:13:45 So one of the crucial points when you
add that second microphone
and you raise that fader, is to make
sure that it's complementary,
that it enhances what
the first one is doing,
and doesn't take anything away.
00:13:55 For example, if you push that fader
and you can hear the bass
that you heard from the first mic
go away, that means you're out of phase.
00:14:02 You have to move that second mic
until that doesn't happen.
00:14:04 Once you've done those two things,
you have enough raw material
to be able to do pretty much whatever
you want at the mix
by either blending,
picking one or the other,
compressing, EQ'ing, but at least
you know that you have
two great sounding microphones
that are complementary, in phase,
and that are a great basis
for your whole drum sound.
00:14:22 Et voilà!
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Fab Dupont is an award-winning NYC based record producer, mixing/mastering engineer and co-founder of pureMix.net.
Fab has been playing, writing, producing and mixing music both live and in studios all over the world. He's worked in cities like Paris, Boston, Brussels, Stockholm, London and New York just to name a few.
He has his own studio called FLUX Studios in the East Village of New York City.
Fab has received many accolades around the world, including wins at the Victoires de la Musique, South African Music awards, Pan African Music Awards, US independent music awards. He also has received Latin Grammy nominations and has worked on many Latin Grammy and Grammy-nominated albums.
Parts of this site and some files are only accessible to pureMix Pro Members or available to purchase. Please see below our membership plans or add this video to your shopping cart.
And what about the phase of 2 mikes? In the Exercise files the kick signal is already mixed. Did you shift the phases? It's very important - and didn't explained.
juancopro-flow
2012 Aug 26
nice vid, i like the second set up the best. Real punchy and knocking!
Icetea335
2012 Aug 01
Hey Fab,
How is moving the mic compared to using phase invert on the preamp?
Thanks!
